document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. to 885 ft. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. See how the ratios have swapped places? Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). Tenth 0.64 Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. Its like wheres Waldo. That year, for the first time, the 10R80 ten-speed transmission was available with the 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6, 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, or 5.0-liter Coyote V8 engine options and was even an option with their popular Raptor model. The solenoids can be replaced separately, but only with the same type of solenoid. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. R.F. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. 2. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. Thanks Jeff. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? Remember, this is just a theory. We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. Always appreciate the great exchanges. I believe AFM has been replaced with DFM Not for fact nojust was basing on the truck. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. (incl. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. January 2022 Jason, MAZDA6 shuts down while driving fuel pump not monitored, may be no engine light etc. This is a normal and desired behavior. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. Production Began 2017 - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. Cart Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. LT). Stock capacity . For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. Allows easy highway cruising, seamless downshifts, Transbrake and 2nd gear (2.34) leave options through multiple templates tuned independently of the engine management system! All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. You can scribe numbers on them from 1-6 if you choose for a quick reminder of their location. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). Seventh 1.00 None of the above categories describe me. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. I would be willing to get it rebuilt, but want it to function like it should (not back to the way it came from GM). The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. 1. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. Note, some customers may complain of a converter type whine noise coming from the transmission. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. Wait 2 seconds. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. Thats a great question. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? More or less a TT V8 german car so if the new 8 or 10 speed GM transmission would work where the 6L80E came originally and the CTS V, SS Sedan, and ZL1 Brembo brakes work it could be a great platform. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. Quick 4 Stand-Alone Transmission Control System 3. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Why is that? This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). All rights reserved. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. The button for Tap control is on the top of the shifter, making it easy to use in both left and right hand drive vehicles. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. Shop Finder LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! This is the abridged version of my problem. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs.